Interview with Celina Murga

Argentine writer/director Celina Murga has made a series of intriguing character studies over the course of her career starting with her debut feature, Ana and the Others in 2003. Five years later, her film A Week Alone caught the attention of Martin Scorsese, who executive produced her 2014 feature, The Third Side of the River. This year, the Tribeca Film Festival hosted the world premiere of Murga’s new film, The Freshly Cut Grass (2024), which Scorsese also presented.

This absorbing low-key drama tells the parallel stories of two academics who begin adulterous affairs with students. Natalia (Marina de Tavira of Roma) cheats on her husband Hernán (Alfonso Tort) with Gonzalo (Emanuel Parga). In a parallel plot, Pablo (Joaquín Furriel) is stepping out on his marriage to Carla (Romina Peluffo) with his student Luciana (Verónica Gerez).

The two stories each feature similar scenes and dialogues, but with slight differences. Murga’s point may be to address the older man/younger woman vs. older woman/younger man dynamic, or how women and men process adultery in the same or different ways. The Freshly Cut Grass doesn’t judge these characters – even the Dean for both Natalia and Pablo indicate neither has committed a crime, though he does advise caution. 

What emerges is a sense of how all six main characters are impacted by the affair(s) and how they internally process their emotions. There are not big emotional moments, rather a series of quietly powerful scenes of silence between two partners that express the aching they are feeling, which is what makes this film both powerful and compelling.

Senses of Cinema spoke with Murga as well as cast members Joaquín Furriel, Marina de Tavira, and Romina Peluffo during the Tribeca Film Festival about their new feature.
– GMK

L-R: Joaquín Furriel, Celina Murga, Marina de Tavira

Celina, can you describe your approach to this film and the parallel stories it tells? What dictated this narrative process? What was the intent of the parallelism?

CM: The intent was to reflect how gender roles function, not only in the intimacy of a marriage and a family, but also in relation to a bigger system like a university. I wanted to depict the gender roles inside a family, but also in the eyes of society.

I thought it was effective because there are differences between the two stories. I liked the overlaps. The older man/younger woman dynamic, and the younger man/older woman dynamic helps elucidate points about how gender is perceived in society.

MdT: I think it’s fantastic how Celina portrays gender differences and judgments in a subtle way. You have to look for them, but they are there. Once you get into the film, and the story, and the characters, they come out. She’s saying that the patriarchal system involves us all – men and women and the family, but also in the context of work.

Celina, did you have specific criteria for the scenes with Natalia and Pablo that were repeated? When there were changes in dialogue or actions were they deliberate? 

CM: In the script, we knew which scenes the dialogues would repeat, and we did not purposely say, “This line would be said by a woman and this line by a man.” But then in the editing room it changed a lot, because you had to pick things to illuminate something. Or maybe you have to take out other things. Because it is all about balance. That was a big job in editing. It was not only a situation that repeats; sometimes things are equal, or similar, but sometimes they are different. It was important to find a way to depict this but not in an obvious way. I don’t want people to think she acts like this because she is a woman. Or he acts like that because he is a man. In the end I want the film, as Marina said, to reflect that we are all part of this patriarchal system and society and we all need to find new ways, and new forms together. It’s not one thing against the other. That is key.

JF: I think our characters are having a midlife crisis. My character, as a husband, a father, and a teacher, is also a man living with the shackles of society. The culture works with all of us. I am so proud of the women in our country. What they deal with is really difficult. For us men, we need to understand we are part of that problem. We have to be reflexive about the problem of our systems. I think many things are changing from the past to today. We need to be “woke,” and not lose sight of the gains that have been made. The film invites you to think and ask questions. It’s an open movie. It does not provide answers. When I received the script, I thought it was good because it was all there – showing the problems, but not accusing the characters. I am very proud of what Celina did with the movie.

Marina de Tavira as Natalia in Freshly Cut Grass

Celina, you frequently sit with the characters and let us absorb their thoughts and emotions. What prompts you to hold a shot, and allow the actor to just be present in the moment? And for the actors, what was it like to sit and process these moments?

[Everyone laughs] CM: We laugh because we talked long about this, and we had a long rehearsal process where we discussed the script and the characters and these dilemmas of gender roles. One of the key moments, working with Joaquin and Romina, was trying to find this way of letting the audience see characters’ emotions, but not in a linear way. We need to find “in-between” things. “It’s not only this, or that, but it’s a compilation of this emotion and this thought.” For me, that is an important way of presenting the characters in 3-D. It is a system that is not only functional to the script, but it shows the many layers and the complexity of the situation. 

RP: I remember we talked a lot about that. The scene where Pablo and Carla talk in the kitchen when she [learns of his affair]. Celina said it shouldn’t be that Carla is mad and that’s it; it’s much more complicated than that – layered and nuanced. My character may have felt it could have happened to me. A lot of things were going on in her mind. It’s not nice to be in her position, but she understands. It was as if they were in a beautiful marriage and the [affair] came out of the blue.

Both Natalia and Pablo confess this affair is the first time they have stepped out of their marriage. It’s not clear why their lovers, Gonzalo and Luciana, respectively, are so attractive to Natalia and Pablo that they cheat. Was this impulsive? Have they thought about cheating, or had chances to cheat in the past? What observations do you have about why these professors have consented to relationships with their students – especially given the teacher/student power dynamic. We don’t know what sparked this. Can you talk to that point? 

RP: I think it’s brilliant, because it doesn’t matter. It’s not about that. I mean, it could have happened at any point or with any other person. It’s not that the characters, or Luciana and Gonzalo are not special, or not important, but it was a moment for them to go through that.

L-R Valeria Bistagnino (Producer), Celina Murga (Director/Writer), Tomás Eloy Muñoz (Producer)

JF: I think Pablo and Natalia have to have this experience to rethink their marriage and themselves in exactly that moment of their life.

RP: It’s like life – things happen to you because it is the moment you have to go through something. The same thing could have happened before, or not. Some people call it “Divine Timing,” but I don’t know what that is. [laughs]

MdT: I don’t think it is a conscious thought for Natalia. We’re used to watching an older man with a younger woman and we understand why she is attracted to her handsome teacher. But the other way around is something we’re not used to. I think Natalia feels looked at in a way she never thought would be possible. She feels that look in Gonzalo’s eyes and she feels he is looking at me that way. Is this really happening? You don’t get a closeup of that reaction and thought in her – but it’s there.

JF: It is quite particular too. Talking again about the genders, and how different it is to have an affair for a man and a woman, how Pablo goes through the experience is different from how Natalia goes through that experience. Because they are part of the younger generation, she invites him to be with her, and he becomes the object of desire.

MdT: Now that you are saying this, I realise in both stories, it’s the woman who makes the first physical approach. It’s not that the physical approach is the first approach, but the women touch first and kiss first.

There is a whole concept of consent! I was intrigued that the bedrooms scenes in The Freshly Cut Grass were all post-coitus and featured the lovers canoodling in bed rather than having sex. There is brief nudity from both the younger lovers which may perhaps be deliberate admiration. Can you discuss your strategy in depicting the sex? You might expect a passionate affair, but we get just what is said after.

CM: We talked with the screenwriters about that. We wanted to shoot scenes when you can feel two people connecting in a present moment but not show the obvious passion. As Marina says, the characters want to be seen in a different way. That is what they are looking for in these younger people. Being able to connect with others in a way they are not finding inside their marriage. That is why it is about a middle-age crisis – they need to feel renewed in some way, and this is how they do it. 

MdT: Those particular scenes, you can see the subtleties that I love about Celina’s work. You can see Joaquin’s character is comfortable with his nudity; he is laying like that in bed. And Natalia is covering herself. When she turns around to put her shirt on, she shows her back. It is not the action of being ashamed, but at a certain age, we look at women’s bodies in a different way than we do men’s bodies. He is like this [leans], like the young girl. But the other way around, Natalia does not feel that comfortable. Maybe during sex, she does, but now that the sex is over, and we are in bed like this, no.

Celina Murga and Marina de Tavira

Let’s talk about your thoughts on the morality of adultery. Your film does not advocate for it necessarily, but it suggests absolution more than anger. I like that the characters are adult in their discussion of adultery.

RP: We talked about in this particular marriage the man is not in touch with his feelings. Probably Carla has tried many times to talk, but she knows things are not well. Their marriage is not dead, they still have something there, but he can never talk about it. Eventually you get to a place where something is going to happen, and this is what happens in this story. That’s why, when she finds out, she is not just mad; she understands this can happen. But also because of the way he does it. It is his first time, and it is not like he is comfortable with the situation. She’s a mature woman who tries to understand and I think that’s beautiful.

JF: I think both of them are very honest with what they say when they talk. They say to each other things that probably can hurt, but they are being honest.

RP: They care for each other…

JF: Being honest is a way to care for each other.

MdT: It is interesting what Romina is saying about watching the men, because this happens also with [her husband] Hernán, who doesn’t want to talk. She’s the one that says, “Let’s talk about this.” I think, and this is not accusatory, on the contrary, it’s like the patriarchy also owes a lot to men because its taught them not to talk. They’re forbidden to do so, and that’s hurt them. You know. I have a son, and Celina has two sons. So, it’s like we want them to be able to cry. We want them to be able to talk because it’s been painful, you know. The system has hurt us all.

Joaquín Furriel and Marina de Tavira

There is no great suspense about the characters getting caught in their affairs. Was this a deliberate decision to make the film more about – as one character says – “What is happening to me is important to me and to us”? I appreciated the emphasis on the emotional impact on the characters. Can you talk about the emotional impact, rather than the affair itself.

CM: I think that the adultery or the betrayal is not important. I feel all the characters, especially Romina’s Carla and Alfonso’s Hernán, realise that this is happening, but it is not the important thing. The thing is: what are we going to do with this family and this marriage? In some ways, the betrayal exposes the real problem that is beneath. It’s like a symptom. It’s not the problem itself. 

I’m also curious about the editing and cutting between the scenes, balancing the stories. Did you have an agenda regarding how much screen time was devoted to a character or a scene? I believe there are two bedroom scenes with Pablo and Luciana but only one with Natalia and Gonzalo, so I was wondering about keeping things even. You also have different scenes of family life with each couple and their children.

CM: It was tricky because we wanted to be similar, but at the same time, we did not want it exactly the same. We worked to find the balance between the two stories but not necessarily make them equal. That’s why there are some scenes that are very similar. The situations are similar inside the family with the kids and the discussions and tensions within the family, but at the same time each story has moments and situations that don’t appear in the other story. It was a way of allowing the audience to reflect on the characters, but at the same time not make it “ideal.” In the editing room, we made changes because when you are editing you see what you have. The script is not what you have. It is the past. The whole point is to discover what you have. Sometimes to tell the story you want to tell you have to change things and make it different.

This leads me to discuss your framing of scenes and use of space. You capture an intimacy here that provides a warmth or a distance between the characters. What informed your visual style that homes in on the characters and these moments.

CM: From the start, the Director of Photography and I had to find ways to use closeups to allow viewers to understand the characters – not only because of what they say but also what they don’t say. But at the same time, we knew that the environments and the families and the house and the university were important, so it was finding a balance of the elements and focusing on the point of view of one or another character.

What can you say about making films in Argentina these days? Is financing and distribution becoming harder? 

CM: It’s a complex moment, really. It’s difficult to understand what is going to happen. The INCAA [Instituto Nacional de Cine y Artes Audiovisuales] as we know it is no longer functioning. It’s literally closed. We are waiting for the new president to know what the plans are. Next year will be difficult because only one film is being shot at this moment in Argentina. The problem is much bigger.

JF: The extreme right wing needs enemies, and the first fight they begin is always with the cultural communities. I think many people who voted for [President Javier Milei] are not happy with their decision. The same as with public education. The question we are asking each other is how many rights is our society prepared to lose to win the battle against inflation and our economic problems? In Argentina, we still have a middle class, which I am proud to be a part of. My mother is an academic. I studied drama at the National University. I’m the actor I am thanks to my country. I used to work in national or city theatres. I think that we are proud in how we love cultural things in Argentina, and now we are living in a difficult moment. But we are together and we are doing many things and we are very pleased with how cultural communities in different countries are helping us, showing our film in festivals, or when you ask us about what has happened, because you are worried about things in Argentina. Since the 1990s, our cinema is something that we are very proud of – not only for Oscars or nominations, or the prizes we got in different festivals. We are proud because like the movie we are presenting now, we can show our culture to the world. That’s beautiful. Whenever I see a film from different countries, I understand a little more about that country. But this president we have now, he has other ideas about that.